I’m just saying…

So I’m talking to The William G (it’s like A Tribe Called Quest, you say the whole thing) the other day, and he pointed me out to that Korean Comics Rental Industry hoo-hah. I gave it a quick skim, and we began talking about what The William G thinks is the core roadblock to having that sort of system here in the states: Collector Mentality. Something I fancy myself to know a bit of. After it went on for a while we decided this should definitely be posted online, and he let me do the honors. So here’s the conversation, from beginning to end, edited for length and clarity. Enjoy.

The William G: Remind me to not follow any referrers back to blogs.
Phil Kahn: Why’s this?
The William G: Got some Kurtz fan boy talking shit about me and now I’m in a mood.
Phil Kahn: Let me see this article in question.
The William G: Hmm… Lemme check the history.
The William G: (URL REMOVED)
The William G: I know, it’s all relative
Phil Kahn: True enough.
Phil Kahn: But this is what happens when you thrust yourself out there as a public figure and all that.
The William G: Sure. My anger is dissipating now. Still a bit wired though. Bad thing to be at 5am.
Phil Kahn: Dude, it’s 5AM where you are. Get some sleep, dude.
The William G: The curse of starting work at three in the afternoon and having sweet fuck all to do in the morning. Not like I can catch Regis here. Since I got yah… http://thewilliamg.blogspot.com/2005/12/korea-and-online-comics.html Read it if you haven’t. Tell me what you think of the “Collector culture” idea as a roadblock to comics’ success. It’s all theory of course.
Phil Kahn: I think it’s absolutely a roadblock. Our culture takes these comics that were created for a purely entertainment purpose, and tries as damned hard as we can to add an intrinsic value that doesn’t exist. The value, based very highly on sentimentality as well as exclusivity. Like 1st issues. The first few issues of X-Men blew. I’ve read the first five in trade paperback form, and I’m not afraid to admit that early X-Men were pretty lame. At least by today’s standards. It wasn’t until they were able to give X-Men edge without being “extreme” that they had redeeming quality as stories.
The William G: The Stan stuff? Or the Claremont “Adjective-less X Men”?
Phil Kahn: Early early. Stan stuff and sorta later. Pre-Claremont. Pre-Byrne.
The William G: Okay.
Phil Kahn: It’s really ironic, because these days Claremont sucks. You wouldn’t think, but his stuff is lame in the X-books these days. Anyhoo, these characters and archetypes that resonate with us not only as readers, but as human beings… We put a lot of value on them sentimentally. Like a teddy bear. The Teddy Bear you grew up with is inherently valueless. But to you, it’s priceless. The Collector Culture makes me think of that. The key difference is that the sentiments are shared by a large group of people.
Phil Kahn: So a group of people, many of which might not even like superman, all agree that the first issue is worth half a million bucks. Because they are willing to pay for it. And this translates across the board, because the same values are applied to first appearances of other characters, as well as exceedingly rare comics.
Phil Kahn: And the publishers got wise on the collector mentality. So they started making variants. And alternate covers. And special editions.
The William G: You seem to have thought about this
Phil Kahn: Not too hard, actually. But since you brought it up, y’know? Anyway, the publishers got wise to the collector mentality. So they can now publish the same fucking book, with a different cover, and make a bunch more money. Because it costs them much less to make. And then there’s creator signings.
Phil Kahn: I mean, realistically, how much more valuable could a comic book be because it was signed by the creator? That’s counter-intuitive to me. Because the guy sharpie’d all over the fucking comic! So how do we classify it, collector wise? Damaged or Signed? And if you get that book signed, it would require verification and forgery detection and all that nonsense.
Phil Kahn: But the idea of creator signing adding monetary value to a comic is weird to me. Because if Collector A loves Spider-Man, and has the latest milestone issue signed by Brian Hudlin or whoever was writing it… And he tries to sell it to Collector B, who doesn’t like Spider-Man (and in fact hates Brain Hudlin), is that book still “valuable?”
Phil Kahn: Not to Collector B it ain’t. No matter how hard Collector A tries to convince him. So the collector value of comics is rooted very strongly in sentimentality. And every other comic is not just a cheap $3 thrill, but a possible investment. So they bag ‘em, board ‘em, and put ‘em in a box. Because comics demand respect to them. And why?

Phil Kahn: Because the majority of the planet says they don’t. I say comics demand respect because they’re a versatile artistic and storytelling medium. And they demand the same respect that any other medium deserves. Not more or less. But the same.
The William G: you are copying all of this down, right?
Phil Kahn: Yeah, I’ll save the convo. I used to be a collector, y’know. Not even a real collector. A vicarious collector. When I was 10-14 I read the shit out of Wizard and ToyFare. I considered myself a collector, despite not owning a single collectable item.
The William G: I semi-collected. But I got bored with them so I sold them off
Phil Kahn: That’s something there. The marketability of collector’s items. They’re marketable to only two types of people: Collectors, and people who think they can buy it and sell it themselves for a profit.
The William G: I got jack shit for them. That made me realize it was a pretty stupid business. Time proved me right, as it always does
Phil Kahn: Definitely a stupid business in the sense that it’s a tremendously high risk business. There’s a ton of money to be made in collecting. It’s just extremely hard to do. And rare.

(Editors note: Huh. A business strategy with a low probability for success. That sounds familiar…)

The William G: Just not for the collectors
Phil Kahn: It’s weird, too when you think about it. It’s really the same money and items just switching hands over and over again. Until the item eventually finds a home. And even then, it’s only home for so long. But the reason we don’t have that comics rental system is because over here, comics aren’t as widely appreciated (outside of the newspaper).
Phil Kahn: Korea? Japan? They manage to have comics about… *gasp* NOT SUPERHEROES! Scott McCloud said it best: “Superbooks are like chocolate cake. I love chocolate cake. But who wants to only eat chocolate cake for the rest of their lives?”
The William G: Well, that’s more a thing of history than anything else. Post war Japan and Korea needed cheap entertainment so renting comics and other books became a major industry.
Phil Kahn: Right. Their comics are easier to do in a rental system, as well. Thicker books, stronger paper stock. They’re worth more on the most basic level because they cost more to make, and have more content. The American Comic book is very, very fragile (adding to the need to bag & board).
Phil Kahn: But to conclude, you’re absolutely right about collector mentality being a major roadblock to the Korean style of comics consumption. Renting comics are also impractical for American comics on the whole, with the fact that they release them in 24 page installments. And the cost of renting such an item, plus the raw ruinability, would be the same cost as just buying it. Comics range from $2.25 to $3.50. That’s the price of a video or DVD rental these days. So it could work for bigger graphic novels, but definitely not for issues.
The William G: I’m thinking TPBs may work well with that system
Phil Kahn: Exactly. $2 to rent an $11 Spider-Man TPB. And then? If you decide you want to own it? You can give ‘em $9. That system could potentially be pretty sweet. And if they encouraged the big publishers to put out like, quarterly TPBs instead of monthly issues? I’d be totally fine with that. Especially with knocking out them ads.
The William G: It’d be a major hit to their finances though. They earn a lot by double selling the material.
Phil Kahn: They do. However, if the overall quality and diversity of the books could improve, that would rock as well. Both for the hypothetical system, and for the quality of the books themselves. And hey, they could still feed collector culture by releasing limited edition variants, creator signed copies, special editions with extra art and creator commentary… The works. And being able to read an entire 5-issue story arch in one sitting is so much more potent than reading monthly story installments.
Phil Kahn: But it would take a very long time for our pop culture mentality to adjust to comics. And some damned clever marketing. And some NON SUPERBOOKS.
The William G: yeah… okay, I’m fading. Talk to you later. Can’t wait to read the essayfied version of this.